Since I’m tired and have to be up early tomorrow morning, here is an open thread* for y’all to discuss the VP debate. You can also include impressions from your friends and family.**
A focus group of undecided voters returned their verdict: Palin hit a home run, swayed voters to her side.
Didn’t catch all of it? Need a refresher? Want to see Sarah Barracuda rip on the MSM one more time? Find the transcript here and the video here.
Updated: One of the big questions is whether the debates - and the VP debates, in particular - have an effect upon an election. As a data point, Real Clear Politics has Obama up by 5.7% over McCain. Let’s see if and how that changes over the coming days.
*While there’s nothing that my heart likes better than some vigourous debate, I would like to remind y’all to keep it civil. Tieki and I happily welcome guests to our corner of the blogosphere, but it’s still our blog, our rules.
**For example, if your name is Allison, please help out your friend who is suffering from temporary amnesia and cannot remember your brother’s brilliant commentary.
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I appreciated Sarah’s moments of humor and going after Biden or Obama.
I thought Biden’s idea of “fairness” sounded terrifyingly Marxist (or Obammunist.)
I was disappointed, but not surprised since she is his running mate, at the times when Sarah echoed John McCain’s global warming or Wall Street Greed BS.
Sam Pierce’s last blog post..Debate Pointers For Governor Palin
I had to work during the debate, but I did catch the last 15 minutes or so. From that, I thought Sarah looked and sounded confident and composed. Biden wasn’t completely awful, but he always comes off as snobby and elitist to me.
I am so excited to go to my government section this afternoon to listen to the libiots whine and cry about how Sarah Palin’s brain didn’t explode on stage. Should be a generally good time.
It would have been nice if Palin could have stayed on task and answered questions that were asked.
I think there is something to be said for saying what she wanted to say, regardless of what was asked. Of course, I would have prefered that she at some point wished Gwen Ifill luck on her upcoming book.
Sam Pierce’s last blog post..Debate Pointers For Governor Palin
Lol — me too Sam.
I was thinking that someone might have shot Biden in the butt with a Valium dart or something. He can be so much worse than he came off last night, but I think they probably wanted to circumvent having to do damage control.
Oh well, he is terrific gaffe machine and I’m sure he’ll meet our expectations in a matter of 5, 4, 3, …..
Sunflower Desert’s last blog post..Obama’s Teleprompter
I wish someone had asked Palin about the witchunter that she credits with praying her into the goveornor’s office.
The witch hunting situation in Africa is getting out of hand,with many innocent children and old people being maimed, or horribly killed and it seems weird that a major national candidate is encouraging it by promoting one of the monsters right here in the US.
But I suppose most people dont think it’s a big deal since it is so far away
Teresa’s last blog post..Action Alert!
Haha! My brother (Navy pilot, classic alpha male) called me three times…I finally picked up on the third call and the first thing I heard was, “She stomped his BALLS!” Followed by gleeful laughter.
I have found that nothing delights alpha males more than an ass-kicking delivered by an attractive alpha female. Classic.
As for me, I have now watched the debate and I concur with my brother. Governor Palin is new to the Big Stage, but she is learning exponentially. That’s a sign of high intelligence, fearlessness, and talent. Which beats Biden’s decades-long trudge to mediocracy anyday. Kind of how a bunch of colonial “nobody” upstarts trounced the great and powerful England a couple centuries ago. You betcha
I suppose you can always tell if she did well by reading the next day’s paper and web-articles. She did nothing short of stiring up more venom from the liberal establishment because she is everything they wish they had save her mind and heart; if they could only transplant Hillary’s brain into her body - they ponder.
I watched the debate and Palin immediately was doing better. If you noticed she quickly addressed the millions of people watching; Biden on the other hand couldn’t keep his eyes off the moderator that looked like a life size mint or green M&M. Palin did okay in my opinion, not bad, not great; but at least she washed away worries that she would make a mockery of herself. Biden was cool and collected and did his thing.
I wish McCain and Palin would take a moment and listen into the conservative talk shows because they regularly have amazing arguments that would rock the debates. But instead we get another show. Honestly, there is little content over the course of those two hours. This person is bad, I am good. I voted for this, so vote for me. To much ground is covered. I’d rather have a more focused debate, about one or two main issues - the War in the Middle East and the economy is PLENTY.
I’d also like to see the next person who says more socialism is patriotic (following this 700B bailout) hung by their tie.
Palin was horrific. She often created the impression that she wasn’t informed about the subjects on which she was opining. She spun her wheels a lot.
Example: I think bankruptcy is a very important subject right about now, and Joe and Gwen aren’t the only ones who want to hear what you have to say about it.
Example: With regard to Iraq, I didn’t hear a plan, either.
Example: You say that Bush hasn’t messed up with regard to Israel, but can’t you give me a reason why you think that? I don’t want to hear “yes” or “no” followed by a digression.
Palin’s performance reminded me of Bush’s performance in his first debate with John Kerry, except that instead of pausing constantly, Palin made statements that were utterly irrelevant to the questions she was asked. Many of the answers she gave could’ve been given by a person who didn’t know anything about the subject. That makes me think she came to the debate unprepared. Which I find offensive. These debates are a small but important part of the decisionmaking process for the presidency. If she doesn’t have enough respect for that to show up with enough information to answer the questions put to her, questions that a lot of us folks at home would like to see answered, why should she get anyone’s vote?
Ha! I just realized I typed “mediocracy” instead of “mediocrity.” Nice!
I’d like to pretend I was inventing a new word–a class of mediocre people–but I wasn’t.
Teresa is my new hero:-)
FPEMA,
Thanks!
Please feel free to come to my blog. I try to keep my “company manners” here…
…Though when I fail, Roxeanne is most gracious in gently reminding me.
Teresa’s last blog post..Hallowed are the Ori
AJWHR,
The debates lose any hint of respectability when you know going into it that the moderator has a huge financial stake in an Obama victory. That said, I believe Palin did fine and I’m glad she decided what she was going to say and not let the Obama Book Club president dictate. (Gwen Ifill did alright too, which I, like many attribute to being exposed prior to the debate.)
Sam Pierce’s last blog post..Joe Biden, Preferred Candidate of Parasites
Rambling thoughts as I listen:
Palin was right to not let Gwen Ifill steer her answers to Biden’s statements. She should be able to nail him on his b.s. without the “moderator” who stands to profit by her loss of the campaign tell her what to say.
Biden flubbed the “class warfare” question. It’s not warfare if it’s fair. He screwed up the $250,000/small business issue - it depends on corporate structure, so that statement of his was totally incorrect.
As for corporate taxes: I wish she had hit free trade issues - some of our biggest problem is that we can’t compete in the world economy and export goods because other countries have very low corporate taxes (but a high VAT) - our goods, when overseas, get taxed twice (once through high corporate taxes, and again through the VAT). This is a huge issue for Detroit.
Biden lied re: “no tax increases” for those who earn under $250k - Obama explicitly stated that it is more “fair” to increase the capital gains tax, even though it would harm the economy (and ultimately decrease federal revenue). Most people who earn under $250k/year have securities.
Palin seems to hit one issue/answer in her responses, rather than do a Biden (and make up lots of stuff).
She gets her shots in at Obama, too, which is part of her role in a VP debate (or acceptance speech).
Her answer to the question about not upholding promises and moving to energy is fine - she’s sensible in saying that they have not made campaign promises that they won’t keep, then going on to something else.
Biden screws up on the windfall profits tax. Hugely. He likened Obama’s strategy re: giving $1,000 to the poorest Americans to Gov. Palin’s move in Alaska in distributing oil revenues. Thing is, in Alaska, oil is owned by the people of Alaska, then leased out to the oil companies. If Biden is going to make that comparison, he is saying that the money earned by people earning over a quarter-million a year, or the profits of private companies, are owned by the poor. Freakin communist.
Said elsewhere, and belongs upthread: Biden seems to be saying some things that are not true. McCain called out people in 2005 on the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac thing, and Biden says otherwise. In fact, McCain brought forth legislation, that Obama voted against, IIRC.
Oh, adjusting the principal that you owe on your house? So the President would change the value of people’s homes, and unilaterally change the contract terms? That’s sick. Likely unconstitutional (Contract Clause), but the great team of con law profs don’t seem to know that. Also, goes beyond garden-variety socialism.
Palin should hammer home the connection between the economy and energy - that the economy is screwed up in part because of our high energy costs.
Why is Gwen Ifill asking politicians about what is true and not true about climate change? They aren’t scientists. Her answer makes sense, but I wish that she would point out that environmental issues extend far beyond AGW - carbon dioxide is not the only pollutant in the world.
Biden is wrong about the man-made climate change. Furthermore, biofuels may cause more carbon emissions than coal.
I wish she were able to tout the benefits of free-market health care. Competition reduces cost. Given how the press has hammered her and turned her into a soap opera, I don’t blame her for working her credentials - which are largely in energy - into the conversation.
Biden doesn’t seem to understand that you can’t use a wind farm to power your car. He also - understandably, given that it’s a nightmare for his side - dodges that issue of energy independence, which involves getting our oil from domestic sources.
tieki rae, Hope all is well. This election is driving me crazy. The D’s are really rolling out the lies……….steve
Next Stop Lauderdale’s last blog post..Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 (a white paper)
I think the D’s are doing an excellent job! And finally exposing the lies from John McCain.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the Keating 5?
I was in grade school at the time, so everything and anything I know about that is from the internet.
My feeling is that if he was completely exonerated, and not even nailed on an ethics violation (which can be sufficiently squishy to cover a lot of behaviour), then it’s a non-issue. Aside from that, no real thoughts.
McCain wrote in his book that he remained “a little troubled” at the prospect, “but since the chairman of the bank board didn’t seem to have a problem with the idea, maybe a discussion with the regulators wouldn’t be as problematic as I had earlier thought.” This gives indication to me and others about his decision making capabilities.
I also find it odd that Cindy McCain and her father invested over $350,000 in a Keating shopping center only a year before McCain met with regulators. and all the trips the McCains took on Keating’s dime…were not repaid until YEARS LATER, AFTER he found out about the trouble Keating was in over Lincoln.
Also in his book, McCain admits to “ridiculously immature behavior” during the interview with the AZ Republic stating that “persistence in questioning me about the matter provoked me to rage” Yea, those are the reactions I want to see in my president.
The Right love to bring up that he was exonerated BUT let’s not forget that along with the Ethics committee, McCain himself admits to using “poor judgment” for intervening with the federal regulators for Keating.
And while I am on my McCain rant, if the Right want to use the ‘guilt by association card” Maybe we should bring to light the association McCain had with Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub. I rest my case….for now.
and all the trips the McCains took on Keating’s dime…were not repaid until YEARS LATER, AFTER he found out about the trouble Keating was in over Lincoln.
That should be And all the…..
I to was a little girl at the time, but I do remember my grandparents financial loss due to the Keating scam. This was their entire life savings. I remember my parents helping my grandparents out financially. Due to McCain running for president, I asked my Mother what they did at the time, she had said they wrote to Congressman McCain and did not recieve any answer. So if this is the way he ran our state, yes I am originally from Arizona, how will he run our country?
Goldurnit, pass the moose stroganoff!
Gina,
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’re not trollilng.
First of all, take a civics lesson. McCain never ran your state, and is not running it now. He’s a Senator, to the federal government, not a state executive official.
Second, if your parents wrote to McCain and did not receive an answer, blame his secretaries. Do you really think that every U.S. Senator reads, personally, every single piece of mail that comes into their offices? After having read it, do you think they compose personal responses? Consider the sheer volume of mail that comes in.
Third, it’s Senator McCain. “Congressman” implies that he is in the House, the other half of our bicameral legislature.
Fourth, if Barack Obama rose up through the ranks of Chicago politicians - one of the most corrupt regimes in the country - and did not change it, and did not make some serious enemies, do you want him running Washington? Give me the guy who doesn’t write personal letters over a thug, please!
FPMA,
Not only was McCain exonerated, by prominent Democrats said he never should have been investigated in the first place. There is a reason why we have a justice system; we want to ensure that we don’t conflate an accusation with a verdict of guilt.
Two things: innocent people who are harassed - and have their character put under attack - get angry.
More than that, McCain - looking back from the vantage point of 72 years - says that his behaviour was “immature.” Doesn’t that tell you 1) that he grew up; and 2) that Barack Obama is still within the age bracket of “immature”? Obama lacks the perspective to be able to evaluate his own behaviour. There’s some evidence that younger presidents tend to be bigger risk-takers and be worse at self-restraint. If you really want a mature person, I would suggest, first, the individual who has the humility to admit when he was wrong (which is a component of growing up), and second, that you evaluate your own candidate by those same standards. Ask if his lack of self-proclaimed immaturity is truly due to a lack of maturity, or to perspective.
Well for starters, I didn’t accuse him of being “guilty”, I simply stated his own words, again, that he used “Poor Judgment”. Thanks, but please don’t put words in my mouth.
As for being “provoked to rage”, I said that it wasn’t a quality I would look for in a President. I am quite sure there are millions who would agree. I hardly think that persistence in questioning is harassment.
You know that old saying if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I haven’t seen Obama show any lack of restraint but I will keep my eyes open…and try to blink occasionally.
Did you have any comments on the guilt by association topic? Because, after all shouldn’t we play fair if we are going to play games?
And Roxeanne, since you seem to have such affection for the elderly maybe you could find it within yourself to give Gina’s mom a break since she got McCain’s title off by a few years. He was a Congressman just prior to the Keating rip off, but you would know that if you took a history class.
[Deleted by RdL.]
Have you not been awake for the past six weeks? Obama (and his goons) turn into psychos when even questioned on their policies.
He lied about Gianna Jessen.
He called Palin a racist for mentioning Ayers.
He shouts “liar” at anyone who questions him.
He tried to sic the DOJ on his detractors.
He got law enforcement officers and prosecutors to tacitly threaten anyone who dared oppose him.
These are not the qualities of a man who can withstand pressure. No one is questioning his character - merely his judgment. No one is bringing him up on ethics charges - merely commenting upon his policies. Yet he reacts in a way that makes McCain look like a Stepford wife.
Obama is, without a doubt, the most frightening politician in our lifetime.
Like I said, I will keep my eye on Obama (I will just pretend he is Putin.)
If you could be more specific on a few things,
What lie exactly did Obama tell in reference to Gianna Jessen?
The only thing I can find about Palin being called a racist is your average “joe-six-pack” making that sort of comment. I haven’t found a single quote by Obama making that claim.
“He tried to sic the DOJ on his detractors.” Again, this goes back to the guilt by association topic. Let’s try again.
“He got law enforcement officers and prosecutors to tacitly threaten anyone who dared oppose him.”
In your line of work don’t you call that hearsay?
If you are trying to do a typical “smear” then don’t waste your time. If you actually want to change the opinions of liberals so that McCain stands a chance, then you might want to provide actual facts and references. Otherwise odds are, and I’m not a big gambler like your old friend McCain, you will be seeing President Obama sworn in come January.
I still can’t get a straight answer about the guilty by association question. Is this fair game on both sides or not? I personally don’t think it matters……Here is the opinion of your guy John McCain. Something I actually agree (or agreed..he seems to have changed his tune) with him on:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1Tb-vrEww
‘Also too’ you probably want to delete this comment but given the numbers, it might be a good time to have a discussion.
I suggest, FMPA, that you read this blog. I’ve written extensively about almost every one of those things. Michelle Malkin covered the racism issue. I can’t make you stop being willfully blind; all I can do - and desire to do - is put forth arguments for rational people.
Hearsay is an out-of-court statement which is offered for the truth of the matter asserted. The words, if offered merely to show that the person did in fact say them, are never hearsay. So no, you dumb bitch, it’s not hearsay, and, even if it were, this isn’t a trial - the only place in which hearsay testimony is excluded. (I know that you liberals have trouble with the basic civics of things like this not being a government blog, nor a trial. Work on that, would you?)
Sometimes you just make me smile.
Sunflower Desert’s last blog post..Palin Wows the GOP Faithful
Just thought I would point out the obvious:
hear·say Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[heer-sey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one’s direct knowledge: I pay no attention to hearsay.
2. an item of idle or unverified information or gossip; rumor: a malicious hearsay.
–adjective 3. of, pertaining to, or characterized by hearsay: hearsay knowledge; a hearsay report.
——————————————————————————–
[Origin: 1525–35; orig. in phrase by hear say, trans. of MF par ouïr dire]
—Synonyms 1. talk, scuttlebutt, babble, tittle-tattle.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
“The words, if offered merely to show that the person did in fact say them, are never hearsay.”
Sooo, you said;
“He got law enforcement officers and prosecutors to tacitly threaten anyone who dared oppose him.”
If you are not a witness to that, I am pretty sure that according to the dictionary reference above, it is HEARSAY. Maybe at the Bob Jones School of Law they use a different definition of hearsay.
ooookkkkkaaaay, THAT, makes me smile:-)
By the way, after the bitch comment I felt a little glow, that maybe Sarah Palin and I have something in common. How cute is that? Plus also too I can like totally play the flute also!
Something about this silence reminds me of someone uh, hmm, sounds like ‘FAILIN’uuhhh uuuuhhhh
Well off to bed, gnite folks!
You said “hearsay” in context of the law (”In your line of work [lawyering] don’t you call that hearsay?”), so using the lay definition of the word is improper. As always, I’m right and you’re wrong.
As for the silence: I was out with a friend last night and didn’t log on to the internet. Only in your world (a messed-up place; I’m almost sorry for you that you have to live in it) is failure to immediately respond an indication of an inability to do so. This probably stems from the fact that we have lives, while you - with nothing better to do than troll on a blog - don’t.
As anyone will tell you, I’m not religious; likewise, they can also tell you that I graduated from a very well-respected law school.
By the way, Tieki’s at an Ivy League school, so don’t make yourself look foolish by knocking her intelligence, either.
Roxeanne, I was just wondering for future reference, if your rules only apply to “guests”?
“While there’s nothing that my heart likes better than some vigourous debate, I would like to remind y’all to keep it civil.”
You do remember the “dumb bitch” comment right?
You are a dumb bitch. That’s not rude, that’s just a statement of fact. RdL
Did the little trollie come over to stick up for her little trollie friend? Get a life, honey, and find some other corner of the internet. RdL
Also too Roxeanne, I also want to make the point that the word hearsay, regardless of the context, refers to information that is unreliable. After all, that is why it is not admissible in court. I don’t think that point is too complicated for even you to understand being a lawyer and all. Thankfully we can all trust that you will get these simple explanations because you have advised us all how smart you are.
So what? You erroneously stated that in lawyering, we would call what I said hearsay. I pointed out that you were a dumb bitch who is wrong on that issue. It doesn’t matter what hearsay means in the lay context, in a submarine, or in a treehouse; the ONLY relevant question is what it means in a legal context, because that’s what you originally limited it to.
So suck it up and admit that you’re wrong - because, really, it’s gotta beat sucking at life the way that you do. Do you really not have anything better to do with your time than to troll random internet blogs? Then you get your friends in, like their opinions come out of nowhere. Sometimes, you even make up other names. How pathetic is that?
RdL
[Deleted by RdL. Bye-bye, trollie! Look at me, NOT shedding any tears for you.]
[Deleted by RdL. Bye-bye, trollies!]
Oh good. The delete comment button is working.
Sleep tight!
Sunflower Desert’s last blog post..Palin Wows the GOP Faithful
[Deleted by RdL. Get a life.]
I am obviously a slacker, leaving you to deal with the trolls by yourself. That said, you are quite adept at putting them in their place.
Random thoughts:
- don’t mess with RdL when it comes to the law
- Obama outright said that Gianna Jessen was lying about the situation of her birth (when her BIRTH CERTIFICATE says she was a survivor of a saline abortion). How classy is that?
- The AP, also known as the Obama Campaign Propagandists, called Sarah Palin a racist
- The information about Obama sending out the dogs (DOJ/law enforcement) on people he disagrees with came directly from: A) the prosecutors and sheriffs he sent out and B) the media (don’t you worship them?). So, if that’s hearsay, what isn’t?
- just for emphasis, don’t mess with RdL when it comes to the law
Thanks, Tieki.
Apparently, some people hate on FRE 801(c). It’s a strange world we live in.