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	<title>Comments on: Christian Democrats?</title>
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	<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/</link>
	<description>"I remember way back when a liberal was one who was generous with their own money" - Will Rogers</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tammi</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6523</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6523</guid>
		<description>Hi No2liberals,
Because I think both you and Bridget are terrific, I do want to say that I think her comment is more light hearted than you took it as. Just saying.  :)

Happy Thanksgiving kids!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi No2liberals,<br />
Because I think both you and Bridget are terrific, I do want to say that I think her comment is more light hearted than you took it as. Just saying.  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Happy Thanksgiving kids!</p>
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		<title>By: no2liberals</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6521</link>
		<dc:creator>no2liberals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6521</guid>
		<description>theobromophile,
I don't see how you were able to deduce my saying I am uncomfortable with someone's atheism, to saying she is wrong, or that there is something wrong with all atheists.
My perspective set you off somehow, and I don't believe it was anything I typed.  If you would, read my comment again, and compare it with what you went on about, and tell me how different our observations are.  She was a brilliant woman, as I said, shaped by her experiences...i.e. her home of origin, and the communism she escaped.  I also said I thought she was inspiring.  Did you not see that?
Yes, I am a Christian, and I have no idea what your belief system is or is not, and it doesn't matter.  Try not to misinterpret what I say, or perhaps remove your filters before you read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>theobromophile,<br />
I don&#8217;t see how you were able to deduce my saying I am uncomfortable with someone&#8217;s atheism, to saying she is wrong, or that there is something wrong with all atheists.<br />
My perspective set you off somehow, and I don&#8217;t believe it was anything I typed.  If you would, read my comment again, and compare it with what you went on about, and tell me how different our observations are.  She was a brilliant woman, as I said, shaped by her experiences&#8230;i.e. her home of origin, and the communism she escaped.  I also said I thought she was inspiring.  Did you not see that?<br />
Yes, I am a Christian, and I have no idea what your belief system is or is not, and it doesn&#8217;t matter.  Try not to misinterpret what I say, or perhaps remove your filters before you read them.</p>
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		<title>By: Comment of the Week! at Sunflower Desert</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6516</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment of the Week! at Sunflower Desert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6516</guid>
		<description>[...] liberal enjoy it. He just has that talent of tactfulness that I clearly lack. He commented on the Christian Democrats? post:  Hi Tammi - Good points and excellent distinctions. Liberal Christians often pervert [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] liberal enjoy it. He just has that talent of tactfulness that I clearly lack. He commented on the Christian Democrats? post:  Hi Tammi - Good points and excellent distinctions. Liberal Christians often pervert [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: theobromophile</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6510</link>
		<dc:creator>theobromophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6510</guid>
		<description>No2Liberals,

1. Nobody is perfect.
2. It's an understatement (and a knock on her) to say that she was "at least" anti-communist.  Communism pretty much shaped her philosophy - she lived it, saw its effects, and, like a lot of people who got out of Russia during those years, HATES it and make it their life work to oppose it.  
3.  What's wrong with atheists?  

To be serious about the last point: Ms. Rand declined to go a step further.  That does not make her wrong, nor you right, nor the other way around.  Any religion that teaches its adherents that they are worthless scum will be a scourge upon the Earth.  Many religions are collectivism imposed by threat of eternal damnation.  Look at Islam.  It teaches that its followers are bad, that they can only redeem themselves by serving another, that women are worthless and only there to be exploited, and a host of other horrors.  In order for any religion to at least do some good in the world, it must teach that the individual has worth.

Now, I could be wrong, but I recall that you are a Christian. I could also be wrong, but I think that the Bible says something about man being created in God's image.  

Is that &lt;i&gt;truly&lt;/i&gt; inconsistent with what Ayn Rand was saying?  Is that not just another step on her analysis, one which she declined to take?  She says that need is not a claim upon others, nor a license to enslave; she posits (brilliantly) non-religious reasons why a collectivist system does not work.  Reducing to absurdity, she posits that man MUST be of value for himself.  Christians teach the same exact thing.  They teach that individual humans are extraordinarily valuable beings - from being made in the image of God, to having Jesus die for each of us, to the sanctity of life.  

Same concepts.  She arrives at them from a different place, building them from the ground up.  She is under no obligation to pretend that Christianity is the only justification for those reasons, nor that principles which exist in the Christian tradition cannot be justified but on the Bible - that they have no correlation to the world we live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No2Liberals,</p>
<p>1. Nobody is perfect.<br />
2. It&#8217;s an understatement (and a knock on her) to say that she was &#8220;at least&#8221; anti-communist.  Communism pretty much shaped her philosophy - she lived it, saw its effects, and, like a lot of people who got out of Russia during those years, HATES it and make it their life work to oppose it.<br />
3.  What&#8217;s wrong with atheists?  </p>
<p>To be serious about the last point: Ms. Rand declined to go a step further.  That does not make her wrong, nor you right, nor the other way around.  Any religion that teaches its adherents that they are worthless scum will be a scourge upon the Earth.  Many religions are collectivism imposed by threat of eternal damnation.  Look at Islam.  It teaches that its followers are bad, that they can only redeem themselves by serving another, that women are worthless and only there to be exploited, and a host of other horrors.  In order for any religion to at least do some good in the world, it must teach that the individual has worth.</p>
<p>Now, I could be wrong, but I recall that you are a Christian. I could also be wrong, but I think that the Bible says something about man being created in God&#8217;s image.  </p>
<p>Is that <i>truly</i> inconsistent with what Ayn Rand was saying?  Is that not just another step on her analysis, one which she declined to take?  She says that need is not a claim upon others, nor a license to enslave; she posits (brilliantly) non-religious reasons why a collectivist system does not work.  Reducing to absurdity, she posits that man MUST be of value for himself.  Christians teach the same exact thing.  They teach that individual humans are extraordinarily valuable beings - from being made in the image of God, to having Jesus die for each of us, to the sanctity of life.  </p>
<p>Same concepts.  She arrives at them from a different place, building them from the ground up.  She is under no obligation to pretend that Christianity is the only justification for those reasons, nor that principles which exist in the Christian tradition cannot be justified but on the Bible - that they have no correlation to the world we live in.</p>
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		<title>By: the Grit</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6509</link>
		<dc:creator>the Grit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6509</guid>
		<description>Hi Tammi,

It's always a pleasure to spend time here, and I would do so more often if She Who Must Be Obeyed, my wife, wasn't so insistent on having everything perfect for the Holidays.  Oh, and that running a farm thing takes up far too much time in this season.  Still, it's nice to know there's a certain winner here when I have the odd free moment.

the Grit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tammi,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always a pleasure to spend time here, and I would do so more often if She Who Must Be Obeyed, my wife, wasn&#8217;t so insistent on having everything perfect for the Holidays.  Oh, and that running a farm thing takes up far too much time in this season.  Still, it&#8217;s nice to know there&#8217;s a certain winner here when I have the odd free moment.</p>
<p>the Grit</p>
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		<title>By: Tammi</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6506</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6506</guid>
		<description>Jessica,
Help yourself!  :) Thanks for stopping in  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessica,<br />
Help yourself!  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Thanks for stopping in  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Tammi</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6505</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6505</guid>
		<description>I certainly understand what you're talking about no2liberals. As a believer, I am always uncomfortable with atheism (nothing personal Bridget hun!). Not sure that it would be possible not to be, but that's just my opinion. Of course vehemently anti-communist is always a good thing.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly understand what you&#8217;re talking about no2liberals. As a believer, I am always uncomfortable with atheism (nothing personal Bridget hun!). Not sure that it would be possible not to be, but that&#8217;s just my opinion. Of course vehemently anti-communist is always a good thing.  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6504</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6504</guid>
		<description>"I find nowhere in the Word where God instructs me to give to the lazy, the whores, liars, cheats, and con artists."
I love this...with your permission I would love to put some of this on my blog.  Awesome post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I find nowhere in the Word where God instructs me to give to the lazy, the whores, liars, cheats, and con artists.&#8221;<br />
I love this&#8230;with your permission I would love to put some of this on my blog.  Awesome post!</p>
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		<title>By: no2liberals</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6503</link>
		<dc:creator>no2liberals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6503</guid>
		<description>As much as I admire much of what Ayn Rand had to say about the spirit and value of men, her atheism has always troubled me.
What she described herself as, was an "objectivist."  She believed altruism was, at best, wrong and did not serve man well.
&lt;blockquote&gt;When "the common good" of a society is regarded as something apart from and superior to the individual good of its members, it means that the good of some men takes precedence over the good of others, with those others consigned to the status of sacrificial animals.

Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone's altar nor for anyone's cause - life is not one huge hospital.

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.

This god, this one word:

"I."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
See what I mean?  She could think and write things that inspired me, then with one quote, make me feel very uncomfortable.
I forgive her though, she was unique, and shaped by her experiences, and at least she was a vehement anti-communist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I admire much of what Ayn Rand had to say about the spirit and value of men, her atheism has always troubled me.<br />
What she described herself as, was an &#8220;objectivist.&#8221;  She believed altruism was, at best, wrong and did not serve man well.</p>
<blockquote><p>When &#8220;the common good&#8221; of a society is regarded as something apart from and superior to the individual good of its members, it means that the good of some men takes precedence over the good of others, with those others consigned to the status of sacrificial animals.</p>
<p>Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone&#8217;s altar nor for anyone&#8217;s cause - life is not one huge hospital.</p>
<p>And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.</p>
<p>This god, this one word:</p>
<p>&#8220;I.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>See what I mean?  She could think and write things that inspired me, then with one quote, make me feel very uncomfortable.<br />
I forgive her though, she was unique, and shaped by her experiences, and at least she was a vehement anti-communist.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammi</title>
		<link>http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6500</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/2007/11/04/christian-democrats/#comment-6500</guid>
		<description>Hi Grit!

Yes, God is real smart that way.  :)  Though, the 10% in the Bible is what is referred to as the tithe. I know it might upset some Christians, but you are correct, He requires it of &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; Christians, not just the rich ones. In other words, God expects someone with an annual gross income of $75,000 to tithe 10% of that, or $7,500. AND he expects someone who earns a gross income of $20,000 to tithe $2,000 of that income. Offerings are actually what is given over the required tithe.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s also important to note that liberals only want to make a show of trying to help the poor without actually solving their problems since if that happened the ex-poor would vote Republican.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Offering real solutions to the poor would indeed be devastating to the DemonRATS. 

It's always such a pleasure when you stop in.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Grit!</p>
<p>Yes, God is real smart that way.  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Though, the 10% in the Bible is what is referred to as the tithe. I know it might upset some Christians, but you are correct, He requires it of <em>all</em> Christians, not just the rich ones. In other words, God expects someone with an annual gross income of $75,000 to tithe 10% of that, or $7,500. AND he expects someone who earns a gross income of $20,000 to tithe $2,000 of that income. Offerings are actually what is given over the required tithe.</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s also important to note that liberals only want to make a show of trying to help the poor without actually solving their problems since if that happened the ex-poor would vote Republican.</p></blockquote>
<p>Offering real solutions to the poor would indeed be devastating to the DemonRATS. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s always such a pleasure when you stop in.  <img src='http://conservablogs.com/sunflowerdesert/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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